You said...But as someone who admittedly doesn't yet understand how megachurches can truly "do" church the way we're called to in God's Word, I wonder: Are megachurch leaders sacrificing certain key elements of the Christian faith for the sake of numerical growth? Peter preached and 3000 were saved...there had to be a mega church crowd there that day...so how do you justify that mega churches can't do church the way we're called to in God's Word. Seems to me that the mega church is doing exactly that. And not to mention the mega church crowd when Jesus spoke and fed the 5000 plus women and children. Who is really falling short. Makes me wonder how a small church can do church the way God calls us to in His Word.
 

Actually, if you be frank, you'll agree that those were evangelistic outreaches of "unsaved" people not church. Church comprises mostly of "saved" people. And where do we see real mega churches in the new testament? No where! What we see is "the group of believers that meet in so-and-so house" I'm not against size of church, big or small. As long as they can effectively do what God has called us to do then that's fine. But with the mega church system, it can be really difficult to discipline people for sinful practices as in the case of the Corinthian church. Well stuff like that and others make the mega church somewhat ineffective.
 

I have been a Spirit Led pastor for over 30 years. I have friends in a number of different persausions in the Christian comunity.

I have been a pastor in two specific churches that would be considered very large, one of which would be a Mega Church.

Both began as Pentecostal/Charismatic Churches in their respective communities. One of which during the time of my pastoral ministry decided to embrace what would be in their minds, further numerical growth opted to want to go in the direction of more of an evangelical styled church service and less Pentecostal/Charismatic.

For quite sometime I fought the under current that existed with some until it reached a place where it was for me no longer tolerable.
I refused to "water down" the Word being preached as I had been asked to do by a board member in exchange for what he felt would be greater numbers.

After months of instigated division and manipulation,and the confronting of a situation that was so deplorable to me spiritually, I could not longer remain at the helm of a church who once knew true corperate moving of the Holy Spirit with Public confessions of faith and the sick being healed and the gifts being in operation for a version of something that would only have the apperance of God's thumbprint.

Today that church has as its pastor one who once also knew the moving of the Holy Spirit but who has opted for numbers and relaxed away from corporate worship with the evidence of the aforementioned deposits. The Church today is not any stronger than it was before nor is it truly any larger, they just exchanged some new faces for old ones.

The second church(Mega)continues to have at its core those same Pentecostal/Charismatic beliefs/convictions, and continues to grow and is approaching some 5000 now in number all the while embracing those distinctives that some would say may the the Church to become an endagered species.

I am convinced you can have both but it is somewhat of a jungling act on the part of the Senior Leader today. But well worth the work, when people can expereince all that God has for them in an environment that does not compromise the New Testament Church model.
 

Church comprises mostly of "saved" people....HOPE NOT.. And where do we see real mega churches in the new testament? No where!...AT LEAST 7.. What we see is "the group of believers that meet in so-and-so house"...MAYBE 2...ACTUALLY I WONDER HOW MANY MEGA CHURCHES YOU ARE ACTUALLY INTIMATE ENOUGH WITH TO MAKE YOUR JUDGEMENT...
 

My personal experience with Mega Church status churches is limited to around 18 such churches that I have had intimacy with.

Though that may be more than sufficient for a formed opinion based from my own personal experiences both spiritually and academically along with my pursuit of Fellowship with the Body of Christ as a whole, I am not advocating that God only uses Mega Styled Churches to accomplish His Will or Purpose.

But having said that, it is also true that in consideration of the actual comments the writer used in the article, my position is that you can have Intimacy as a Mega Church as well as the smaller congregation, should "one" (senior leadership) be talented enough to be able to give expression to the needs of the House whatever they are.

My real concern is for churches who are Charismatic/Pentecostal in doctrine but lack the same in public demonstration because they fear that their growth will be hindered. Why did people come and continue to come to their church in the first place?

Was it not for the freshness that was offered and the openness to the Spirit that was being experienced?

Why is it that "some" Mega Churches that are of a Pentecostal or a Charismatic dimension suddenly feel the need to move away from the very essense that brought them the success that they are achieving?

I know of some Mega churches who once practiced public invitations for salvation whose altars have been filled with seekers of Christ, now lay bearen and empty of the life that was once manifested from them.

Yes, I do believe that we can all experince God anywhere but a red flag goes up when we see churches
not having invitations any longer, no prayer meetings, and meetings in homes to bring out the "deeper truths" because we don't want to risk the exposure of the "meat" of God's Word to congregants because we don't know who may be visiting this particular Sunday etc.

I witnessed what writers write about today regarding the concerns of the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement some 10-12 years ago. I have personally expressed my concerns to Pastor's Across America of the trend that I was seeing develop then and now is spreading through the landscape of the church community.

I simply believe that you can have a vibrant, growing church that can influence its community as well as the world in which we live, should we apply ourselves to the principles of true growth both numerically and spiritually.

My true hope and prayer is that we honor the Holy Spirit that has given us all the growth we have experienced and that we recognize our success is only His success through us and we acknowledge that fact. That we do not move so quickly out of fear of the "what if's" that could occur.

We "are", only because "He is"!

Yes, I have authored books and yes, I am educated both as an experienced pastor with some measure of success and have been blessed with a great education.

But what I am most thankful for is the fact that I have NEVER forgotten HIM who called me and who placed His Anointing upon me to serve Him and His body.

I will not compromise the truth that has been delivered unto me nor will I just sit back and say nothing of the Church that was formed in the fires of revival that is now trying to be perfected through the manipulation of techniques and raw emotion alone.

Yes, the methods of evangelsim can change and I have seen this and have been a part of this first hand but that is not what is at question.

We can never abandon the essence of who we are because of the fear of men.

Let's together see God move through intimacy with small churches and larger churches (Mega) without feeling you have to compromise the one in order to get the other.
 

My perception or impression in regard to the growth is this aspect that in big churches; it is easier to stay away from the spot light,not being known somewhat intimatly from others who can recognise each others shortcomings as in smaller groups, causing in the person a sense of guilt. This guilt feeling is to uncomfortable for some to risk to expose themselves.

It would be too involved in going through the details of such psychological reaction but with our increasingly insecure society today, due essentially by the general breaking down of families,
we find an increasing general mass of people who are inwardly afraid and feel more comfortable and secure in big crowds. It is then easier to hide. They will go along with many things but they do not want to be seen. There is an increasing breaking down of self esteem in society because of the breaking down of morals. This phenomenon is not obvious on the surface but demonstrates itself through people's culture as in the magachurch syndrome.
 

It seems to me that the true definition of "church" has been lost by describing some as mega church and some as small church. How many members were in the Corinthian church compared to the Thessalonian? Smaller congregations can do things larger ones can not. Larger ones can do things smaller ones cannot. Each is still a congregation if they are built on Christ and He is in their midst.
Church, minstry, etc. is so messed up anyway by opinions, traditions of men, etc that it will take Jesus to straiten it out anyway. Just another opinion.
 

Though I would agree with the contributor that it may be easier to "hide out" in a larger church than smaller ones due to shear numbers true but should the larger church host accountability groups and encourage all of it membership to engage in such group particpiation will help.

But we need to be mindful that it is NEVER the Churches responsibility to expose a persons heart, that is the job of the Holy Spirit. It then becomes the churches responsiblity to act in a manner that is godly, however that may calulate.

Lets face it, large or small, if people are going to hide out. are they really seeking God anyway?
One cannot legislate godliness or holiness whether the church they attend is large or small. by the way, they shouldn't seek to either
 

Yes, I do believe that we can all experince God anywhere but a red flag goes up when we see churches
not having invitations any longer, no prayer meetings, and meeting in homes....My experience with true mega churches is that they focus on invitations...they do address sin in a powerful way...they push home meetings and relationship...as far as charismatic mega churches...maybe God is adjusting some of those, but they are far from being endangered...in fact they top the list of Mega Churches
 

Maybe, some of the mega churches are leaveing some of the Pentecostal "traditions" behind and focusing on the Great Commission. It has been said that the church is the only institution that does not exist for itself. Isn't that the heart of God when he sent Jesus us to the world to redeem us? We can get to heaven and reflect on all the "movings" of the Holy Spirit, or we can get there and bring thousands with us! As Charasmatics we must be very careful that our doctrine does not turn into a "close up the wagons and bless one another club."
There has been much talk about the mistakes of several ministers in our circles and why they got off.
How come no one wants to address the issue of "slain in the Spirit?"
That has become a tradition with no Biblical backing. We see prominent ministers on TV who show-case the falling, get up, fall, get up, - for what purpose? Is that our only evidence for our doctrine? Then we buy into something that persuades people to fall when prayed for, because if they don't fall - God forbid! When I see our master and example, Jesus praying for people no one fell down, but he sure did pick them up!
Yes, I know the scriptures that are so remotely related to "falling" that we simple don't think, we just do as it has always been done. Hey that sounds like tradition.
Maybe there would be a great move if we didn't replace the "gold" with "bronze." People falling everywhere and standing up unchanged. I always thought it was faith that made the difference - that is what Jesus said, not falling down.
 

Depends on what is meant by Penticostal "traditions." If something is done in the flesh because we've seen others do it, it's tradition, but if it's Spirit-led, that's another story. Now, aren't the gifts of the Spirit meant for the purpose of building up the Body of Christ as tools of the Great Commission. Seems to me to focus on the Great Commission is to seek more and more of the Holy Spirit and His gifts to empower us, not for our sakes, but to do His work. Yes, many people fall into fleshly tradition - I've seen people "slain in the Spirit," shaking and showing other manifestations who were clearly in the flesh - but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater - I've also seen the fruit of the real thing, resulting in verifiable healings that have strengthened harvesters to labor in the harvest.
 

Why has such a minute, non Biblical concept as "falling" become such a major aspect of Charasmatics?
 

Being "slain in the Spirit" is a manifestation that is not new in recent years but is recorded as taking place in meetings of the early church Fathers of the 17th and 18th Century.

But what we should focus on is not the outward manifestations as some would have us do, but to rely soley upon the power of God to accomplish His Will.

Paul said, "I came not unto you with the wisdom of men but in demonstration of the power of God".

Clearly his ministry ignited many hearts ablaze with what "could be" when one truly aligns his ways unto the Lord but I do not believe Paul ever had in his heart that we do things only certain ways and then that guarantees a move of God.

Personally I do think that he would have in this day (if he were here)allow through Apostolic Authority, the "Celebrity Status" that has come to the church and that the vast majority of the church accepts on some level.

I do believe there may be some house cleaning taking place.

I do not believe in the "rack-em up and stack-em up theology that many have bought into. I believe we miss so much by doing so.

What we should be focusing on is how to direct people in ways that will lead to character building and manitaining a balance of God's power and His authority at work in the life of the believer. Prayerfully it will then result in a Hunger for righteousness, and godly living will break forth.

Let's not get sidetracked to discuss merely the outer court issues such as manifestations, but lets us move behind the Veil where His presence is and where He is revealed alone. Lets move beyond the trappings and comforts of the flesh realm.

Gone will be pride, anger, deceit, manipulation and religious thinking alone. It will then be replaced with the dynamics of His Purposes and His Will that He might truly be served and not we ourselvers.
 

Correction of earlier writing, It should have said "I do not believe Paul would have Celebrity Status in the church today if he were here that some have come to accept.

That earlier phrase was incorrect, please forgive the slip!!
 

Please note 5th paragraph where the correction has taken place in the 6:03pm writing!
 

I grew up in a church of 3,000 that is part of a Pentecostal denomination. Even though they are still in the denomination, the church has certainly lost most, if not all of the markings of a Pentecostal church. No gifts of the spirit were exercised during services except for very rarely, and you could feel the unease of everyone when one of the "old timers" would break out. I can see the trend that the numbers point to very clearly in the life of that church.
 

the sad thing about this is the trends also show that most mega churches (as well as ever other church in America) is simply growing by transplant growth. We are still fishing out of other ponds!

While most fellowships are conducting more evangelistic type outreaches than ever before across the board the church in America is not growing...or if it is, it's growing at a very small pace. What is needed is an awakening in the hearts of people across the country...and that can only happen byt the Holy Spirit! Not slick marketing.
 

World Harvest Church is an example of Hard Core Pentecostalism. Rod Parsley has not compromised or watered down his message and i would call this Church a Mega Church. thios proves that it can be done. I think the difference is That World HArvest is a Pentecostal Church first and mega is a secondary term. Some Churchesw set out to become mega wheither they are Pentecostal or not