Friday, August 17, 2007
Can We Do Nothing Right Anymore?
Don't jump to conclusions. Read the full story. Withhold judgment until there's certainty. Innocent until proven guilty.
All good standards to live by, right? Yet I wonder in the backlash against High Point Church's reneging on hosting a gay man's funeral how many of us are really basing our opinions on the truth. Here's the original story, as reported by the Dallas Morning News on Aug. 9. And here's just a sampling of the slight and not-so-slight variations of the same story from ...
Houston Chronicle
The Advocate
Pegasus News
Townhall.com
Christian Today (an Australian site, just to add a global perspective)
Most of us recognize that the lines between news and opinion are blurring these days. Blogs like this one certainly complicate the matter. There's a slant, a bias, a take on virtually every piece of relayed information. (That's an entirely different can of worms I won't open here.) And in this case, it just seems a little more obvious.
But what fascinates me—even more than my gut reaction to this story or others' opinions of it—is how this reveals the church's everpresent dilemma in this world. High Point's stance isn't just another case of a church caught between a rock and a hard place. Nor is this simply about a modern-day church denouncing homosexuality.
The church will always be in opposition to the world. And yet, as a house full of redeemed sinners, we are to extend the same love shown to us in Christ—while remaining true to the foundational, biblical beliefs that define our faith. The two can coexist (much to the surprise of secular media and those who cry for separation of church and state). We can love sinners just like us, and we can walk in the holiness and redemption God calls us to—all the while ushering those in sin to join us in our journey toward Christlikeness. This, I believe, is the core of pastoring. Sadly, in today's world, those who assume that calling—pastors—are increasingly in the wrong.
YOUR TURN: Given all the details (the church's final decision, the way leadership informed the family, etc.), did High Point Church do the right thing? What would you have done differently in handling the situation? Why do you think it's becoming increasingly more difficult for churches to stand on the foundations of their faith?
All good standards to live by, right? Yet I wonder in the backlash against High Point Church's reneging on hosting a gay man's funeral how many of us are really basing our opinions on the truth. Here's the original story, as reported by the Dallas Morning News on Aug. 9. And here's just a sampling of the slight and not-so-slight variations of the same story from ...
Houston Chronicle
The Advocate
Pegasus News
Townhall.com
Christian Today (an Australian site, just to add a global perspective)
Most of us recognize that the lines between news and opinion are blurring these days. Blogs like this one certainly complicate the matter. There's a slant, a bias, a take on virtually every piece of relayed information. (That's an entirely different can of worms I won't open here.) And in this case, it just seems a little more obvious.
But what fascinates me—even more than my gut reaction to this story or others' opinions of it—is how this reveals the church's everpresent dilemma in this world. High Point's stance isn't just another case of a church caught between a rock and a hard place. Nor is this simply about a modern-day church denouncing homosexuality.
The church will always be in opposition to the world. And yet, as a house full of redeemed sinners, we are to extend the same love shown to us in Christ—while remaining true to the foundational, biblical beliefs that define our faith. The two can coexist (much to the surprise of secular media and those who cry for separation of church and state). We can love sinners just like us, and we can walk in the holiness and redemption God calls us to—all the while ushering those in sin to join us in our journey toward Christlikeness. This, I believe, is the core of pastoring. Sadly, in today's world, those who assume that calling—pastors—are increasingly in the wrong.
YOUR TURN: Given all the details (the church's final decision, the way leadership informed the family, etc.), did High Point Church do the right thing? What would you have done differently in handling the situation? Why do you think it's becoming increasingly more difficult for churches to stand on the foundations of their faith?
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This is a very difficult situation. I am a firm believer that all sin is equal as scripture tells us, but there are always those to whom some sin is more abhorent. For me, funerals are a time for those left behind. I think I would have called in the family and discussed the situation and tried to reach a comfortable position before cancelling. I would have tried not to add hurt to the situation, but allowed the family to make the decision to change their plans to fit into the place they had chosen or to choose another place. The way it was handled seems to be just another instance of "you can't join this club" mentality when what we can do instead is offer kindness with some reasonable boundaries so we don't get pulled into sin. Of course, that is only my opinion and I may not have all the facts in the matter.
Well, that church did offer to help move and pay expenses. I might have let the funeral go on since the deceased had contributed much to the church over time. Then following in the near future given a class or sermon on homosexuality and our need for compassion towards all who struggle with sin and sexual sin.
Well #1 If I was a family member in that church I would not have ask the church to host it in the 1st place given the lifestyle he led. I would have taken it to the funeral home in the beginning.
#2 The pastor should not have agreed to host it in the 1st place. I know he was trying to appease his members, but ended up causing them more trouble and causing a rift.
#3 The church has become so desensitized to sin, that comprimize has become the way to handle things. I think the world would appreciate the church more, if we stood for something and stuck to our beliefs.
#2 The pastor should not have agreed to host it in the 1st place. I know he was trying to appease his members, but ended up causing them more trouble and causing a rift.
#3 The church has become so desensitized to sin, that comprimize has become the way to handle things. I think the world would appreciate the church more, if we stood for something and stuck to our beliefs.
The pastor made the correct decision; God bless him for his stand. The man led his life separately from the church and without regard to God's laws; so he must die separately from God and His laws. The way of the transgressor is hard. Jesus dealt with the sin and death problem. If anyone does not respect the work of Jesus Christ, the Cross and Calvary, he pays the price alone. That is why we must warn the sinner.
Perhaps this is a good opportunity for the pastor to warn sinners.
Lynne Gilham
Celebration
Columbus, Ohio
Perhaps this is a good opportunity for the pastor to warn sinners.
Lynne Gilham
Celebration
Columbus, Ohio
The church absolutely did the right thing. What the news media did not explain was that after the church agreed to let the funeral be held there, the church was informed that no church clergy would be involved in the service. The funeral would be totally conducted by, and controlled by, the homosexuals who intended to celebrate and emphasize homosexuality with an explicit film and slide presentation.
I would not allow heterosexuals to present such a sexualized 'service' in my church. The pulpit is on sacred ground for the sole purpose of lifting up Jesus and His Word.
I would not allow heterosexuals to present such a sexualized 'service' in my church. The pulpit is on sacred ground for the sole purpose of lifting up Jesus and His Word.
What's the fuss, I couldn't for the life of me, get it? High Point Church backs out on its commitment to host a funeral service - what's wrong with that? The church and its leadership stood right on its high principles! Why risk contaminating the church, its immaculate pews and carpets with the abominable stain of homosexual sin and all its monstrous effects? Why risk the reputation of the church made up of the redeemed - I just don't know how many of the former members wre criminals, adulterers, embezzlers, murderers whether in thought or actual perpetrators or former gays for that matter?
But you know churches today are now sanitized. Now why should we fault High Point for being choosy not only in whom to baptize but also whom to host in their funeral services. Certainly not Gay! Ohh pleasseeee! Maybe it can accept the worst corrupt official in the govt but not the gay, please!
Hey, do not talk of hypocrisy here - that is not the issue! Not at all! The issue is, what would Jesus (the very Founder of the church)do in such a situation? That's what High Point leaders should answer.
But you know churches today are now sanitized. Now why should we fault High Point for being choosy not only in whom to baptize but also whom to host in their funeral services. Certainly not Gay! Ohh pleasseeee! Maybe it can accept the worst corrupt official in the govt but not the gay, please!
Hey, do not talk of hypocrisy here - that is not the issue! Not at all! The issue is, what would Jesus (the very Founder of the church)do in such a situation? That's what High Point leaders should answer.
REv.Austin Miles said: "The pulpit is on sacred ground for the sole purpose of lifting up Jesus and His Word!" I am sorry, Rev Miles but where in the Bible is that? Did Jesus have any pulpit? Did the apostles use pulpits? Now tell me in church history when pulpits were first used. Pulpits are man-made invention to exalt men as orators and declaimers!
But we exalt and lift up Jesus by doing what He bids us do and following His Word and actions not what we prach or babble in the pulpit! Go to China and visit the "undergrpound churches" - do they have pulpits? NO, but look how they lift up Jesus in their commitment and sacrifice! It is easy to speak of "the pulpit ... for the sole purpose of lifting up Jesus and His Word" for those of us who live in comfort, have thickly carpeted churches and sanitized pews who rejects commitments to have funeral services for gays. Maybe if that dead Gay was an attendant and has donated a big amount to that church, he will merit the honoring of a commitment to have a service.
YOU GOT IT ALL WRONG REV. MILES - AND THAT'S WHY THE CHURCH WILL NEVER GET TO FULFILL THE GREAT COMMISSION - we don't lift up the Name of Jesus by man-made craft like pulpits - we do it by living the kind of life that Jesus wants us to lvie before the watching world.
But we exalt and lift up Jesus by doing what He bids us do and following His Word and actions not what we prach or babble in the pulpit! Go to China and visit the "undergrpound churches" - do they have pulpits? NO, but look how they lift up Jesus in their commitment and sacrifice! It is easy to speak of "the pulpit ... for the sole purpose of lifting up Jesus and His Word" for those of us who live in comfort, have thickly carpeted churches and sanitized pews who rejects commitments to have funeral services for gays. Maybe if that dead Gay was an attendant and has donated a big amount to that church, he will merit the honoring of a commitment to have a service.
YOU GOT IT ALL WRONG REV. MILES - AND THAT'S WHY THE CHURCH WILL NEVER GET TO FULFILL THE GREAT COMMISSION - we don't lift up the Name of Jesus by man-made craft like pulpits - we do it by living the kind of life that Jesus wants us to lvie before the watching world.
[I know of these events first-hand and am a friend of the gay gentleman's brother & his wife, Lee and Ginger Sinclair and their boys whom I know from High Point Church. I am also an ex-lesbian and have absolutely no hatred towards gay people. So. . .]
***
What would Jesus do at High Point Church?
He would say,
"Go and sin no more."
>Unfortunately, High Point Church would have been allowed to exercise very little control over the openly gay memorial service.
Those who went to the memorial confirmed it was undeed a celebration of Cecil's gay lifestyle.
There was no room granted for Christians to say,
"Sin no more."
>Having once lived the homosexual lifestyle, I can say that my sin was no worse than the heterosexual's or the gossiper's sin--but all these sins would keep us from a heaven of child-like purity.
Pastor Gary Simons, I can assure you, knows my past and lives what he preaches. He says,
"Neither do I condemn thee, go and sin no more."
Pstor Gary loves me but loves Truth even greater and because he loves us enough to tell us truth, we can fellowship in heaven for all eternity. Heaven is for the pure of heart.
This is not bigotry. It is love.
>Pastor Gary didn't know until later that friends and family requested a memorial service celebrating a gay lifestyle.
>Had he known that a gay men's chorus, a gay officiator and open mike were planned, he would never have offered to host the Memorial.
He did not know.
> Excuse me but I am almost late for my 12 step group for non-stop talkers, On-Anon.
Have to go,
Patricia Nash
High Point Member since 2004
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***
What would Jesus do at High Point Church?
He would say,
"Go and sin no more."
>Unfortunately, High Point Church would have been allowed to exercise very little control over the openly gay memorial service.
Those who went to the memorial confirmed it was undeed a celebration of Cecil's gay lifestyle.
There was no room granted for Christians to say,
"Sin no more."
>Having once lived the homosexual lifestyle, I can say that my sin was no worse than the heterosexual's or the gossiper's sin--but all these sins would keep us from a heaven of child-like purity.
Pastor Gary Simons, I can assure you, knows my past and lives what he preaches. He says,
"Neither do I condemn thee, go and sin no more."
Pstor Gary loves me but loves Truth even greater and because he loves us enough to tell us truth, we can fellowship in heaven for all eternity. Heaven is for the pure of heart.
This is not bigotry. It is love.
>Pastor Gary didn't know until later that friends and family requested a memorial service celebrating a gay lifestyle.
>Had he known that a gay men's chorus, a gay officiator and open mike were planned, he would never have offered to host the Memorial.
He did not know.
> Excuse me but I am almost late for my 12 step group for non-stop talkers, On-Anon.
Have to go,
Patricia Nash
High Point Member since 2004
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