Wednesday, May 30, 2007
Your Churchprint
Confession: I'm currently a church hopper. My fiancee and I are looking for a local church that we both love where we can get plugged into a strong body of believers. So every Sunday we march to another church and try it on to see how it fits. One of the funny things that happens is that after (almost) every service, if we didn't like it, we can name someone who would.
And that's bringing me to this conclusion: I love the diversity of the church. I love that there's no one-size-fits-all church. I love that every church can cater to a different part of the Christian body.
That doesn't mean I like every church. In fact, I don't like most churches. But I like the fact that even if I don't want to go there, somebody else probably does. I like that we've got liturgy for those seeking tradition and theater churches for those seeking alternative worship. I like that we've got rock bands and choirs. I like that we've got fiery preachers, dry preachers, cheesy preachers and cool preachers. I even like that we've got different theological viewpoints.
I'm not saying that every church is good because it's different, and I'm certainly not saying that there aren't right and wrong ways of doing certain things. What I'm saying is that it's good for a church to have an identity and to know who it's reaching in the body of Christ and the world.
There's a great article in next month's issue of Ministry Today by Mark Batterson on leadership. Here's a quote: "There is the temptation to try to be all things to all people. But if you try to become what everyone wants you to be, you'll become somebody you don't want to be." "I think a lot of pastoral problems would be diffused if we acknowledged this simple fact: we need lots of different kinds of churches, because there are lots of different kinds of people. Our 'churchprint' ought to be as unique as our fingerprint."
What is God's identity for your church? What part of his body does he want you to reach?
INTERACT: If you like what I said, or if you think I'm an idiot, or if you want to add something, please leave a comment.
And that's bringing me to this conclusion: I love the diversity of the church. I love that there's no one-size-fits-all church. I love that every church can cater to a different part of the Christian body.
That doesn't mean I like every church. In fact, I don't like most churches. But I like the fact that even if I don't want to go there, somebody else probably does. I like that we've got liturgy for those seeking tradition and theater churches for those seeking alternative worship. I like that we've got rock bands and choirs. I like that we've got fiery preachers, dry preachers, cheesy preachers and cool preachers. I even like that we've got different theological viewpoints.
I'm not saying that every church is good because it's different, and I'm certainly not saying that there aren't right and wrong ways of doing certain things. What I'm saying is that it's good for a church to have an identity and to know who it's reaching in the body of Christ and the world.
There's a great article in next month's issue of Ministry Today by Mark Batterson on leadership. Here's a quote: "There is the temptation to try to be all things to all people. But if you try to become what everyone wants you to be, you'll become somebody you don't want to be." "I think a lot of pastoral problems would be diffused if we acknowledged this simple fact: we need lots of different kinds of churches, because there are lots of different kinds of people. Our 'churchprint' ought to be as unique as our fingerprint."
What is God's identity for your church? What part of his body does he want you to reach?
INTERACT: If you like what I said, or if you think I'm an idiot, or if you want to add something, please leave a comment.
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This lousy viewpoint has nothing to do with scripture nor any kind of understanding of one body without dividing walls of hostility. The Church is not a supermarket, we don't get to choose who are our brothers and sisters. The sooner we get over this fleshy, self-centered, arrogant approach to Christianity, the sooner we'll see revival!
It is not entirely about what we want - our likes and dislikes. It is about giving ourselves to HIM. We need to ask ourseves what can we give to the body of Christ, not what can we get out of it. That is just selfishness.
Just give yourself to the local church where you live, and if the Lord chooses to use you there then he will take you to Judea to Samaria and to the ends of the earth. It begins at Jerusalem (home).
Just give yourself to the local church where you live, and if the Lord chooses to use you there then he will take you to Judea to Samaria and to the ends of the earth. It begins at Jerusalem (home).
DNM said...
It is not entirely about what we want - our likes and dislikes. It is about giving ourselves to HIM. We need to ask ourseves what can we give to the body of Christ, not what can we get out of it. That is just selfishness.
Just give yourself to the local church where you live, and if the Lord chooses to use you there then he will take you to Judea to Samaria and to the ends of the earth. It begins at Jerusalem (home).
It is not entirely about what we want - our likes and dislikes. It is about giving ourselves to HIM. We need to ask ourseves what can we give to the body of Christ, not what can we get out of it. That is just selfishness.
Just give yourself to the local church where you live, and if the Lord chooses to use you there then he will take you to Judea to Samaria and to the ends of the earth. It begins at Jerusalem (home).
The American gospel has strayed so far from Biblical truth, that "Church" has taken on a totally different definition than God intended. We now 'pick a church' based on a Sunday service style, or how good looking the 'singles' are, or how cool the music sounds? Paul wrote: "But now hath God set the members, every one of them, in the Body as it hath pleased HIM." 1 Cor 12:18 We should simply find out where God wants us - and trust His choice. People are the Church, not professionally staged productions called "church". The American church may be too far gone to recover without going through a judgment phase helping to turn hearts back to Christ.
Wow. So much for encourageing one another. How dissapointing that once again when someone is struggling, the church pulls out the big guns and blasts them. I am very blessed to be part of a small group of believers who know they belong together. I encourage you to pray that God will lead you to the fellowship you need. We too are praying for God to show us what function our part of the body is to play in this world. I trust He will show us the way.
The Word says: 'They will know that we are Christians by our love...not our cliques!' It has been my sad experience that the agape love we're to display for our 'family' has waxed cold. The 'cure' has been being loving, available to listen & pray, not judgmental & TRUSTING to 'whosoever will'. It appears in many fellowships it's JUST US FOUR & NO MORE.......so to speak.
I am also glad that there are different ways to express worship and experience Christian community. Some can worship and serve in any setting, but not everyone is that "strong" (see Romans 14) and we need to bear with one another.
Having said that, I encourage you to check in with God. The important thing is not where you feel most comfortable (as that is rarely the place that will provoke you to grow) but where God wants to plant you. Ask Him.
Having said that, I encourage you to check in with God. The important thing is not where you feel most comfortable (as that is rarely the place that will provoke you to grow) but where God wants to plant you. Ask Him.
I understand that you wish to find a church that is totally for you, but how can you do that in one Sunday Morning service. A church is a living organism. It changes and grows with the people as they grow and are added. One Sunday Morning would not tell anyone what our church is about. A church should be ever growing toward the Vison that God has called it to. It should be growing in the community. I totally agree that anyone entering a church has something to offer if they are walking in the fullness of Our Lord. So stop hopping and get planted and GIVE to the local body. We all need to put down the barriers and grow with one another. The enemy has already separated us, we need to come together.
I think the best advice you received here is to seek the Lord about where He wants you to join. When you find that place you won't like everything about it but you will look forward to attending services and will blend into the church family. I too am glad for the diversity in the body of Christ and styles of worship.
There are two sides to this commentary: from the churches perspective and from the individuals point of view.
I agree with a few of the comments that we shouldn't keep looking for the perfect church for us, but should pray for God to bring us to the place he wants us to be. However, part of that process may be finding a comfort level, or feeling like you belong, or seeing a need for your gifts or having a good fit for your kids in youth group. However God may be moving us out of our comfort zone, too. It's unique to each person and family.
From the church side, not every church can be everything to everybody, nor should it be.
Big churches can have lots of programs and niche places for people to become involved, but maybe has too much organization for some, or it is harder to becaome part of the "family". A small church may provide close fellowship, but may not have a place for someone to use a particular gift.
Churches should build on their strengths and characteristics, such as demographics, geography, facilities and the skills, gifts and abilities of those leading in or belonging to that church. If a church is in a poor neighborhood, maybe it should have focus on helping the poor in various ways; If a church has a large gym on its campus, having a basketball outreach might be worthwhile; If located near retirement homes, holding services each week in the homes or providing help to the elderly might be an opportunity.
Even though the foundations upon which the churches are built and the basic mission and message should be the same, each church should be different.
The key is that churches should recognize these different 'strengths', and support and participate with each other in the differing opportunities. Recognizing we serve the same God, it is him we want to glorify and that we are all part of the same body, however, is no easy task.
I agree with a few of the comments that we shouldn't keep looking for the perfect church for us, but should pray for God to bring us to the place he wants us to be. However, part of that process may be finding a comfort level, or feeling like you belong, or seeing a need for your gifts or having a good fit for your kids in youth group. However God may be moving us out of our comfort zone, too. It's unique to each person and family.
From the church side, not every church can be everything to everybody, nor should it be.
Big churches can have lots of programs and niche places for people to become involved, but maybe has too much organization for some, or it is harder to becaome part of the "family". A small church may provide close fellowship, but may not have a place for someone to use a particular gift.
Churches should build on their strengths and characteristics, such as demographics, geography, facilities and the skills, gifts and abilities of those leading in or belonging to that church. If a church is in a poor neighborhood, maybe it should have focus on helping the poor in various ways; If a church has a large gym on its campus, having a basketball outreach might be worthwhile; If located near retirement homes, holding services each week in the homes or providing help to the elderly might be an opportunity.
Even though the foundations upon which the churches are built and the basic mission and message should be the same, each church should be different.
The key is that churches should recognize these different 'strengths', and support and participate with each other in the differing opportunities. Recognizing we serve the same God, it is him we want to glorify and that we are all part of the same body, however, is no easy task.
Thanks everyone for commenting! Just wanted to say real quick that I totally agree with the objection to treating church as a consumer. One of the most attractive parts of a church to me is the opportunity to serve and become involved in the Body of Christ.
My point with this post is not to say "pick the church that makes you feel the best." My point is that it's good to have a variety of worship styles, but to recognize that we all serve the same God.
My point with this post is not to say "pick the church that makes you feel the best." My point is that it's good to have a variety of worship styles, but to recognize that we all serve the same God.
For a number of years, I attended a church that emphasized children and youth. I'm not exactly sure why I was there. I'm neither a child nor a youth and my son was much closer to 30 than he was to 20. That church virtually ignores adults--other than requesting that they pay tithes and offerings and support its programs for children youth.
Like one of the previous writers, I find myself puzzled by such a philosophy. I'm not sure what the scriptural basis is for it, nor am I sure what happens to the children and youth once they become adults. Frankly, the church seems to be equally perplexed as to what to do with these folks.
Whatever happened to "loving the Lord, thy God, and serving Him only?" All of this devotion to "the marketplace" strikes me as a bottomless pit. If we were to be a McDonald's, we should focus on "the market." As a church, do we not serve a "market" of One?
I pray that the Lord will lead us back to Him--and to our great need to be like Him, and represent Him in our generation.
Like one of the previous writers, I find myself puzzled by such a philosophy. I'm not sure what the scriptural basis is for it, nor am I sure what happens to the children and youth once they become adults. Frankly, the church seems to be equally perplexed as to what to do with these folks.
Whatever happened to "loving the Lord, thy God, and serving Him only?" All of this devotion to "the marketplace" strikes me as a bottomless pit. If we were to be a McDonald's, we should focus on "the market." As a church, do we not serve a "market" of One?
I pray that the Lord will lead us back to Him--and to our great need to be like Him, and represent Him in our generation.
I never comment on thses type of columns as it seems to be fruitless. However the Lord has led me to say something. You have bounght into the universal invisible body of Christ. The body is a greek word called soma and if you study it you will find that it is always local and never ever universal. There is not one giant universal body of Christ. It is manifested in local assemblies that consistute the family of God and not the Church. I have pastored for 32 years and find most churches are phoney will not much offering. Wish you well in your search.
Pastor J. David Jones
Dakota Baptist Church
Minot ND
I do not do unsigned letters
Pastor J. David Jones
Dakota Baptist Church
Minot ND
I do not do unsigned letters
I am inclined to agree with whodat? and DNM. Everyone is different because of our flesh. When we put on the robe of righteousness (Isa 61:10) we all look like His Son Jesus to God. There may be diversity of ministries but all done by one Spirit. If there is one Spirit working in all whole Body of Christ, don't you think there should be more similarities than differences?
I agree, we need diversity, God made us this way. We The Church are different people in different countries, cultures, ages, experiences, and needs. Church isn’t a hyper-tech assembly line in a factory that is producing this same product the same way everywhere on the globe. Thanks God for diversity! But I disagree with this remote-control-church type, where you can go and sit down and wait for entertainment of your ego, pushing the next button (church) if you don’t like this one.
We mixed worldly marketing with Bible and we named it God’s guidance. I really hate this kind of americanizing church, where we bring our points of view, deep ideas, fleshly skills, brilliant thoughts, post-modern conceptions an we also call it God’s wisdom. So you can go to church and stay there or go to another one (every week) if you like, or start your new-personal-church, as because our your feelings, needs, and moods are most important for God. And His greatest dream is for you to feel really comfortable and secure (Hey folks come to our church we have more comfortable seats!!!).
C’mon people, do you really believe it is the kind of Church Jesus talk about?
PS. Consider that we so focus on a thing (church) that Jesus mention only once, and forget the THING that is mentioned almost on every page of the Bible – Kingdom of God. It’s too much church in The Church I think, and too less God’s dominion. If King is present, all crowns are casting, all worldly ideas and conceptions falling, and it’s better to falling than failing in the end.
CHIEFER
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We mixed worldly marketing with Bible and we named it God’s guidance. I really hate this kind of americanizing church, where we bring our points of view, deep ideas, fleshly skills, brilliant thoughts, post-modern conceptions an we also call it God’s wisdom. So you can go to church and stay there or go to another one (every week) if you like, or start your new-personal-church, as because our your feelings, needs, and moods are most important for God. And His greatest dream is for you to feel really comfortable and secure (Hey folks come to our church we have more comfortable seats!!!).
C’mon people, do you really believe it is the kind of Church Jesus talk about?
PS. Consider that we so focus on a thing (church) that Jesus mention only once, and forget the THING that is mentioned almost on every page of the Bible – Kingdom of God. It’s too much church in The Church I think, and too less God’s dominion. If King is present, all crowns are casting, all worldly ideas and conceptions falling, and it’s better to falling than failing in the end.
CHIEFER
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